tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post1644062763941761821..comments2024-02-13T21:53:44.266+13:00Comments on Mark Keown: What saves us?Mark J. Keownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15790396917682891386noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-8573868022445003342009-08-28T09:05:28.559+12:002009-08-28T09:05:28.559+12:00"At this point all my logic runs out. .........."At this point all my logic runs out. .......<br /><br />All that is left is to believe."<br /><br />Amen to that brother!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-22354957618342047232009-08-28T08:54:48.576+12:002009-08-28T08:54:48.576+12:00Hi George. You ask:
" ... human ability to m...Hi George. You ask: <br />" ... human ability to meet the righteous requirements of God whether written on our hearts or in the Law was impossible." Why would God create a scenario that He knew we were doomed to fail at, if not in the garden then at some stage?<br /><br />He knew we were doomed to fail at the first post, but not overall. He knew that when the choice of the tree was given, people would resist him. Yet he always planned the next stage of personal relationship to save. He knew that people would reach for him. He knew that he would save us where we were unable to save ourselves. He knew then that it would by faith and not works. He did it for relationship, he did if for love, he did it for those who would say yes. For me, he would have done it for one person. He did it because he is love and creativity, and wants to give and receive love. This must be volitional, not coerced, relationship from the willing. So he did it knowing it all. Amen.<br /><br />You ask: "..As such God in his wisdom cannot give eternal life to us, ..." God is either omnipotent or not, if there are restrictions on what he can or cannot do ....?<br /><br />My answer is that omnipotence is not defined by Greek categories and imposed on God. Omnipotence to me is set in relation to God and character. He is in complete control and has power over all creation. He can do what he likes. But he is constrained by his character i.e. he cannot do evil. Thus he cannot give eternal life in the world to come to anything corrupted or evil. So our evil (sin) must be dealt with; God is omnipotent in line with his character, being and purpose. He is free within his creation and self completely; but he is good.<br /><br />You ask: "... his son fulfilling the law, and dying on our behalf..... Now we are able to be saved by God; ..." So the law had to be fulfilled before we could be saved? Does this not mean the law determined what God could or could not do? <br />My answer is not that the law had to be fulfiled as much as someone had to live without evil to pass into the world to come. Jesus did that. The law is not the point; purity and holiness is. Jesus as God Man fulfilled the law, died, yet could not be constrained by death because death is a result of sin, excited (not caused) by law (because of our sin). As such, he became redeemer. At this point all my logic runs out. I am not sure how it is that we are saved in and through Jesus? Something mystical happens I suppose. His death becomes ours. His life becomes ours. So all is now faith. Jesus fulfilled the righteousness of God, became our righteousness, and now we are right with God.<br /><br />All that is left is to believe.<br /><br />AmenMark J. Keownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15790396917682891386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-29708142565330288842009-08-27T18:22:30.536+12:002009-08-27T18:22:30.536+12:00Ok I am going to milk this to make a point about h...Ok I am going to milk this to make a point about how dangerous 'words' language can be (cause we're mates):- <br />" ... human ability to meet the righteous requirements of God whether written on our hearts or in the Law was impossible."<br /><br />Why would God create a scenario that He knew we were doomed to fail at, if not in the garden then at some stage?<br /><br />"..As such God in his wisdom cannot give eternal life to us, ..."<br /><br />God is either omnipotent or not, if there are restrictions on what he can or cannot do ....?<br /><br />"... his son fulfilling the law, and dying on our behalf..... Now we are able to be saved by God; ..."<br /><br />So the law had to be fulfilled before we could be saved? Does this not mean the law determined what God could or could not do?<br /><br /><br />..... mate these are I accept all just spurious arguments on my part. I love you man, as you never back away from these sort of issues and that to me is Jesus!!!!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-23282264341616413222009-08-27T06:05:45.759+12:002009-08-27T06:05:45.759+12:00Hi George. This is all my opinion and so relative....Hi George. This is all my opinion and so relative. <br /><br />I do not think God is constained by anything. It is not God who is constrained. It is we who are constrained by sin. <br /><br />The Law at it heart (the 10 C's) represent the heart of God for humanity, as well as the terms of the covenant. It was given for Israel's good, revealing the heart and purposes of God. The problem does not lie with the law or with God, but with us. <br /><br />Adam and Eve sinned, the whole of creation was corrupted. Death and decay entered it. As of this point, human ability to meet the righteous requirements of God whether written on our hearts or in the Law was impossible. We are all a part of Adam's sin, because we all sin (Rom 5:12) (note 'because', this is important, we are all responsible). As such it is we who are constrained not God. <br /><br />As such God in his wisdom cannot give eternal life to us, as we are corrupted and fallen, and it would be a cosmic disaster were he to do so. <br /><br />As such, Christ came, as a man, God yet voluntarily emptied of using his power for self, and became the first human to fulfil the law and made a way for us through his death. <br /><br />Now we are able to be saved by God; his son fulfilling the law, and dying on our behalf. We simply say 'yes' and live in faith-relationship with him. His work saves us.<br /><br />There is now no return to law in the sense of external code, just freedom and grace. Such freedom and grace, flowing from the Spirit now within us, as we yield to his impulse, brings forth the life of God from within us. This life looks very like the law, for the same heart of God that penned the law on stones has now penned it on our hearts... That is how I see it, but I am flawed and there is mystery here all over the place... Shalom.Mark J. Keownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15790396917682891386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-11193242254764026342009-08-27T06:05:44.570+12:002009-08-27T06:05:44.570+12:00Hi George. This is all my opinion and so relative....Hi George. This is all my opinion and so relative. <br /><br />I do not think God is constained by anything. It is not God who is constrained. It is we who are constrained by sin. <br /><br />The Law at it heart (the 10 C's) represent the heart of God for humanity, as well as the terms of the covenant. It was given for Israel's good, revealing the heart and purposes of God. The problem does not lie with the law or with God, but with us. <br /><br />Adam and Eve sinned, the whole of creation was corrupted. Death and decay entered it. As of this point, human ability to meet the righteous requirements of God whether written on our hearts or in the Law was impossible. We are all a part of Adam's sin, because we all sin (Rom 5:12) (note 'because', this is important, we are all responsible). As such it is we who are constrained not God. <br /><br />As such God in his wisdom cannot give eternal life to us, as we are corrupted and fallen, and it would be a cosmic disaster were he to do so. <br /><br />As such, Christ came, as a man, God yet voluntarily emptied of using his power for self, and became the first human to fulfil the law and made a way for us through his death. <br /><br />Now we are able to be saved by God; his son fulfilling the law, and dying on our behalf. We simply say 'yes' and live in faith-relationship with him. His work saves us.<br /><br />There is now no return to law in the sense of external code, just freedom and grace. Such freedom and grace, flowing from the Spirit now within us, as we yield to his impulse, brings forth the life of God from within us. This life looks very like the law, for the same heart of God that penned the law on stones has now penned it on our hearts... That is how I see it, but I am flawed and there is mystery here all over the place... Shalom.Mark J. Keownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15790396917682891386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-22958610021742326982009-08-26T20:00:27.294+12:002009-08-26T20:00:27.294+12:00"He has fulfilled the requirements of the law..."He has fulfilled the requirements of the law."<br /><br />Was God then constrained by the Law in that it's penalty had to be met for mankind to be redeemed?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-39954390355017742912009-08-26T09:59:31.011+12:002009-08-26T09:59:31.011+12:00Thank you friendThank you friendAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com