tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post788805104450371882..comments2024-02-13T21:53:44.266+13:00Comments on Mark Keown: Presbyterian Assembly 2012, ReflectionsMark J. Keownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15790396917682891386noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-54311855734021551042020-10-14T03:57:04.081+13:002020-10-14T03:57:04.081+13:00moncler coat
off white hoodie
hermes belt
stone is...<a href="http://www.monclercoat.us.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>moncler coat</strong></a><br /><a href="http://www.offwhite.us.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>off white hoodie</strong></a><br /><a href="http://www.hermesbelt.us.org" rel="nofollow"><strong>hermes belt</strong></a><br /><a href="http://www.stone-island.us.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>stone island outlet</strong></a><br /><a href="http://www.monclersoutletstore.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>moncler</strong></a><br /><a href="http://www.offwhitexjordan1.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>off white x jordan 1</strong></a><br /><a href="http://www.yeezy-500.us.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>yeezy boost 500</strong></a><br /><a href="http://www.supremeoutlet.us.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>supreme outlet</strong></a><br /><a href="http://www.curry7.us" rel="nofollow"><strong>curry 7</strong></a><br /><a href="http://www.long-champ.us.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>longchamp handbags</strong></a><br />yanmaneeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15229165146687805497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-78923607687231979032013-06-14T23:43:03.271+12:002013-06-14T23:43:03.271+12:00Hello, i feel that i noticed you visited my blog t...Hello, i feel that i noticed you visited my blog thus i came to return the want?<br /><br />.I am trying to to find issues to enhance my web site!<br />I suppose its ok to make use of a few of your ideas!!<br /><br />My blog: <a href="http://www.sportybee.com/profile/garrydonle" rel="nofollow">acid reflux remedies</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-21888984021750757832013-06-06T18:51:47.938+12:002013-06-06T18:51:47.938+12:00Attractive component to content. I just
stumbled ...Attractive component to content. I just <br />stumbled upon your blog and in accession capital to say that I acquire in fact enjoyed account your blog posts.<br /><br />Any way I will be subscribing to your feeds and even I success you get right of entry to consistently fast.<br /><br /><br />Here is my homepage <a href="http://saffronextractreview123.weebly.com/" rel="nofollow">buy saffron extract</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-12952034337958769262013-06-02T08:21:30.503+12:002013-06-02T08:21:30.503+12:00Thanks , I've just been looking for informatio...Thanks , I've just been looking for information approximately this topic for a while and yours is the best I've found out till now.<br />However, what about the bottom line? Are you positive in regards to the supply?<br /><br /><br />my website :: <a href="http://inforchurch.com/index.php?do=/blog/88528/item-overview-greenstar-juicer/" rel="nofollow">breville juice fountain</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-3836075347895158352013-05-23T14:42:56.671+12:002013-05-23T14:42:56.671+12:00Hey I know this is off topic but I was wondering
...Hey I know this is off topic but I was wondering <br />if you knew of any widgets I could add to my blog that automatically tweet my newest twitter updates.<br />I've been looking for a plug-in like this for quite some time and was hoping maybe you would have some experience with something like this. Please let me know if you run into anything. I truly enjoy reading your blog and I look forward to your new updates.<br /><br />My web-site ... <a href="http://wiki.ku.dk/elearning/index.php?title=Fruit_Juicers_Relevant_Articles_Or_Blog_Posts" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.ku.dk/</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-81537164809106093482013-05-23T07:47:37.576+12:002013-05-23T07:47:37.576+12:00Hello, i think that i noticed you visited my blog ...Hello, i think that i noticed you visited my blog so <br />i got here to go back the prefer?.I am attempting to find issues to improve my web site!<br />I suppose its adequate to use some of your ideas!<br />!<br /><br />Also visit my site :: <a href="http://www.ulm.org.ar/ulm/index.php?title=Usuario_Discusi%C3%B3n:DanielPot" rel="nofollow">tv buzz</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-79888646868767592112013-05-22T21:43:33.936+12:002013-05-22T21:43:33.936+12:00Howdy just wanted to give you a quick heads up and...Howdy just wanted to give you a quick heads up and let you know a few of the images aren't loading correctly. I'm not <br />sure why but I think its a linking issue. I've tried it in two different internet browsers and both show the same results.<br /><br />My homepage; <a href="http://www.wikigreen.eu/pl/index.php?title=U%C5%BCytkownik:FlorMclau" rel="nofollow">wikigreen.eu</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-77390782041329633342013-05-21T14:11:23.340+12:002013-05-21T14:11:23.340+12:00I think everything composed made a lot of sense.
H...I think everything composed made a lot of sense.<br />However, what about this? what if you wrote a catchier title?<br />I am not suggesting your information is not solid, however suppose you added a <br />title that makes people desire more? I mean "Presbyterian Assembly 2012, Reflections" is a little boring.<br />You should glance at Yahoo's home page and see how they create post titles to grab viewers to click. You might add a video or a related pic or two to get people interested about what you've written.<br />Just my opinion, it could bring your posts a little bit more interesting.<br /><br /><br />Visit my web page; <a href="http://www.mayukorilakkuma.net/wiki/index.php?title=%E5%88%A9%E7%94%A8%E8%80%85:LillianVa" rel="nofollow">breville juicers</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-62816318506273053142013-05-18T14:10:19.179+12:002013-05-18T14:10:19.179+12:00Does your site have a contact page? I'm having...Does your site have a contact page? I'm having a tough time locating it but, I'd like to send <br />you an e-mail. I've got some ideas for your blog you might be interested in hearing. Either way, great site and I look forward to seeing it grow over time.<br /><br />my site :: <a href="http://www.sf-germany.com/testzone/core2/index.php?title=Offering_A_Reward_For_Strain_Relief" rel="nofollow">faraday flashlights</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-73865889125865712432013-04-24T15:40:32.441+12:002013-04-24T15:40:32.441+12:00hello there and thank you for your info – I've...hello there and thank you for your info – I've definitely picked up anything new from right here. I did however expertise a few technical points using this site, since I experienced to reload the site a lot of times previous to I could get it to load properly. I had been wondering if your hosting is OK? Not that I am complaining, but sluggish loading instances times will sometimes affect your placement in google and can damage your high quality score if advertising and marketing with Adwords. Well I'm adding this RSS to my e-mail and could look out for much more of your respective interesting content.<br />Ensure that you update this again soon.<br /><br />Also visit my web page ... <a href="http://yypbd.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=%EC%82%AC%EC%9A%A9%EC%9E%90:RosalynWe" rel="nofollow">online airplane games</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-33937047158157391502013-04-24T13:30:13.334+12:002013-04-24T13:30:13.334+12:00I will right away grab your rss as I can't fin...I will right away grab your rss as I can't find your email subscription link or e-newsletter service. Do you've any?<br /><br />Please permit me know so that I may subscribe. Thanks.<br /><br /><br />my weblog ... <a href="http://wiki.ischool.syr.edu/spaces+places/index.php?title=User_talk:MurielCEP" rel="nofollow">flashlights you shake</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-46826252238126847432013-04-24T05:54:33.801+12:002013-04-24T05:54:33.801+12:00Have you ever considered publishing an ebook or gu...Have you ever considered publishing an ebook or guest authoring on other sites?<br />I have a blog centered on the same information you discuss and would love to have you share some stories/information.<br />I know my visitors would appreciate your work.<br /><br />If you are even remotely interested, feel free to shoot <br />me an e-mail.<br /><br />Also visit my blog ... <a href="http://beerfactory.org/As_Witnessed_On_Television_Obtain_Wholesale_Products" rel="nofollow">faraday flashlights</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-78110166988203512872013-04-06T04:21:28.174+13:002013-04-06T04:21:28.174+13:00There's definately a lot to learn about this s...There's definately a lot to learn about this subject. I love all the points you made.<br /><br />Check out my homepage ... <a href="http://Wiki.Artide.info/index.php?title=Waist_Circumference_Related_Articles" rel="nofollow">waist height ratio</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-32549078722721690222012-10-15T19:47:49.528+13:002012-10-15T19:47:49.528+13:00I would agree Jesus is the in the image of God, as...I would agree Jesus is the in the image of God, as was Adam, and neither were married. <br /><br />Beyond that, every human that exists required heterosexuality ti exist. One can also argue Jesus required heterosexuality to exist, with God supplying the masculine, Mary the feminine. <br /><br />With Adam, God supplied both elements I would assume. He then created a woman with whom Adam would rule as God's image bearers. Dominion is a shared task. <br /><br />Our first task as image bearers is to multiply and fill the earth--how can that happen without heterosexuality? <br /><br />Image bearing is overly individualised if we are not careful--humanity together share image bearing without status and dominion. We have dominion over all creation, but not each other. I believe when Adam named Eve, it was an act of oppression. <br /><br />Image bearing and living that out on earth requires heterosexuality. I can't see how you can avoid that.Indeed, western civilisation is in part dying, because its birth rate is not sufficient--is this linked? <br /><br />I did say in my other post on this that a single person is made in the image of God, and does not require to be married. However, there is nothing that I can see in the Biblical story that supports homosexuality as a legitimage expression of human image bearing. Paul's argument in Romans 1:18-32 is rooted in Genesis 1-3 as I would see it. <br /><br />Please share your perspectives, as I am working throuh this. Mark J. Keownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15790396917682891386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-88400994310990736782012-10-15T19:05:52.394+13:002012-10-15T19:05:52.394+13:00Mark, with all due respect, this then raises two f...Mark, with all due respect, this then raises two further questions: 1. Are you suggesting that Jesus is not the image of the invisible God? And 2. Human heterosexuality as a necessary aspect of divine image bearing is not the same as claiming, as you are here, that the imago dei requires heterosexual 'marriage'.Jason Goroncyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10569402183837939248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-38860481908799315972012-10-13T10:31:06.083+13:002012-10-13T10:31:06.083+13:00Hi Jason, on heterosexuality marriage and image be...Hi Jason, on heterosexuality marriage and image bearing. There would be no image bearers without heterosexuality. Here is a blog post which gives more detail: http://drmarkk.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/why-i-believe-marriage-is-essential-to.html. <br /><br />Thanks Lisa. You are free to comment, anyone can. There is a complete misunderstanding of love and a rampant individualism that dominates this debate. Sometimes love means saying no to something. The problems with gay marriage and other variants on what I believe to be God's ideals for humanity, is not individual freedom but its impact on human society over time. But people live in a world of individual rights and so-called liberty. So, time will tell. Mark J. Keownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15790396917682891386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-29302836150172015732012-10-12T07:45:43.164+13:002012-10-12T07:45:43.164+13:00I probably shouldn't even comment on Marks Blo...I probably shouldn't even comment on Marks Blogs, ( apologies in advance Mark and sorry to hear about your family illness) <br />But it's interesting listening to all perspectives from posts above and I know it's in circling the PCSNZ assemblies and the making of policy.<br />The debate over Lgbt marriage is in the media it's just not as important to the general public. Those that oppose are more emotional . I work with a group of young gay people and they are so non plussed, they are more accepted now days that they don't feel they have a 'battle' . It's the older LGBT (baby boomers) That have endured prececution and have led the way for a smoother future for younger gay people. <br />Reading above the only post with any sort of 'love and acceptance ' is the anonymous comment. Remember the days when Black people were classed as second rate citizen? And set up their own communities and the communities were so dam fine the Whites then wanted to be involved? And the Black community welcomed them. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02654814851047298704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-60086637492407545442012-10-11T20:20:45.717+13:002012-10-11T20:20:45.717+13:00In response:
1. Thanks Raymondo, yes, there is a d...In response:<br />1. Thanks Raymondo, yes, there is a desire not to be too offensive, which is a good desire I think.<br /><br />2. Thanks Jason: yes, I do think heterosexual marriage is essential to image bearing, but I need to qualify that. I am tied up in some serious family sickness issues at the moment but will blog on this sometime asasp. I won't comment at this point beyond that. <br /><br />3. Thanks Alistair: there were two moves to move a motion to move to the next business,one from evangeicals, it failed. One from the liberal wing sought to employ this on marriage, but the Moderator ruled that the debate had closed at that point. It didn't feel right moving this at the time to me. It felt disrespectful for some reason. An evangelical then moved that the motion be put, that felt better. These debates once on the floor, need to be played out.<br /><br />4. Thanks Jason again: I am not sure what "the word 'love' comes to mind" means in this context. Love is not antinomian and eros can be distorted, so I don't know what that means. Paul, when applying love, say in Rom 13:8, in the same letter rejects sexual immorality including homosexuality. He does so in 1 Corinthians. One of the disagreements in the debate is how to understand love. It seems to me love can be distorted in one of two directions;relational love (injustice, etc); or sexual love (distorted erotic love). 1 Cor 13 deals with both, although the emphasis is on relational love (love is not rude). As in a dysfunctional marriage, sometimes love would say separate rather than stay together. So, I don't know how that helps. Love may say separate. <br /><br />5. Thanks Bruce: I think there were two motions which could have passed normally, but failed because of their intent: a. The motion on liberty on non-fundamental issues; b. The motion on discrimination and orienation. In context, I think the first failed because it was a prelude to removing the prohibition and was unnecessary in light of the motion the previous day. The second failed I think because there is nothing in our legislation that discriminates because of orientation, so is unnecessary at one level (although at another level necessary). Further, I think it was seen as potentially a basis for legal challenge. Not sure about that, just guessing. I didn't actually discuss it with anyone, so not sure. I was uncomfortable voting against both, but it was the context in which they were brought and potential application that led me to vote against them. In your blog you rightly critique our polity, this is a consequence of our approach.<br /><br />6. Thanks Bruce: I am not sure how the McLaren post helps. It shows that he has changed his mind, not how we live together. All I would say is that it is a free world and anyone can set up a church anytime they like. So, why not go ahead and do it? As it seems the day when 60% of the PCANZ will vote to overthrow the current legislation is a long time away (unless I am mistaken), why not set up a church that is more open and see what happens. If God is in it, it will flourish over time. Gamaliel dealt with Christianity in much the same way. I wonder how liberal people in good conscience can stay in a church like ours that rejects their view. I believe if the boot was on the other foot, many evangelicals would leave to set up their own church. Some have already done so of course, and many have left to other churches. <br /><br />Thanks.<br />Mrk <br /><br /><br /> Mark J. Keownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15790396917682891386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-66924118667390699092012-10-11T20:08:09.941+13:002012-10-11T20:08:09.941+13:00Thanks Mark. I think the key question for me is &q...Thanks Mark. I think the key question for me is "what is the Spirit saying to our brokeness?" I have people who I respect and love on both sides of the debate. There was a time in my life when I would have been strongly opposed to the ordination of gays, but meeting gays in counselling and praying with them changed me. I now see it as a justice issue and among other things, one of preventing suicide among our young people. A significant number of our highest in the world youth suicide statistics are of young people facing sexual identity issues. The church stance on gays can be no help to them, their parents, siblings and grandparent. This cuts out a goodly number of the population. Do we as a church ignore them, declare them second class citizens, drive them back underground as happened in the past...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-31853838565280465212012-10-11T14:47:16.107+13:002012-10-11T14:47:16.107+13:00With respect to setting up another denomination, I...With respect to setting up another denomination, I think Brian McLaren says it all in his comments on 'breaking ranks' here http://brianmclaren.net/archives/blog/i-read-recently-about-your.htmlBruce Hamillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17681070634717394661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-179847648424542712012-10-11T14:43:47.262+13:002012-10-11T14:43:47.262+13:00Thanks Mark! Do you have any thoughts on the fact ...Thanks Mark! Do you have any thoughts on the fact that the motion to disallow discrimination on the basis of orientation (not just practice) was lost?Bruce Hamillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17681070634717394661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-35744088191499750032012-10-11T14:38:22.521+13:002012-10-11T14:38:22.521+13:00'What puzzles me is why those who are so stron...'What puzzles me is why those who are so strongly in favour of the ordination of gays, lesbians and people in de facto relationships don't move to set up their own church'. The word 'love' comes to mind.Jason Goroncyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10569402183837939248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-39324965150405546992012-10-11T11:48:40.040+13:002012-10-11T11:48:40.040+13:00It is a tragedy...
I wonder if the best way forwa...It is a tragedy...<br /><br />I wonder if the best way forward is to have someone move from the floor of assembly that we move to the next order of bussiness?<br /><br />Alistairnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-14720329136582086902012-10-11T10:18:38.981+13:002012-10-11T10:18:38.981+13:00'... heterosexual marriage essential to image ...'... heterosexual marriage essential to image bearing'? Surely you're not serious about this unqualified statement, Mark.Jason Goroncyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10569402183837939248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374761658646185874.post-80304560970767945702012-10-11T09:11:21.622+13:002012-10-11T09:11:21.622+13:00It's not mentioned in the mainstream media bec...It's not mentioned in the mainstream media because the church does not push it. The church does not because the leadership "does not want to hurt anyone's feelings" so makes no public comment, or at least does not push to make it known more publically than it is already. Also the leadership is probably on balance careful not to offend the liberal media which is pro change orf almost any kind...RAYMONDOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11694354911916985273noreply@blogger.com