Skip to main content

Gay Marriage—Does it Change Anything? Further Thoughts

In my earlier blog piece after the passing of the second reading of the Gay Marriage bill in NZ, I suggested that in reality the passing of this legislation changes little for Christians who uphold traditional marriage. While many of us will be upset and saddened our response should not be to be reactive prophets of woe, defensive and bitter toward politicians (they are people too) because they have chosen this path, or continuing to regale the world with moralism. No doubt each Member of Parliament all acted in good conscience, and that is all a person can do in any situation. Rather, our response should be to dig deeper into God and work harder to be the people of God we are called to be—people who live out of the call of the gospel. This means being people who live the gospel full of grace and seasoned with salt (http://drmarkk.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/gay-marriagedoes-it-change-anything.html).

There was one additional question that came to me as I continue to ponder this situation. That is the challenge we now face as Christians and churches which uphold traditional marriage where the gay, lesbian, transgender and bi-sexual community is concerned.  As more gay and lesbians marry and adopt children in the years ahead, some from those will seek out Jesus and churches. Some will have leadership potential, which raises a range of questions around gays and lesbians in church leadership. Similarly, as we go about our lives at work and in mission, we will increasingly encounter these people, working and playing alongside them. Some people who believe in Jesus and churches with a more liberal theology which support gay marriage will be fully open to these people and they will have no problem being welcomed as full participants in the life of the church (e.g. http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/38743-rob-bells-recipe-for-spiritual-disaster). Many others will not, and will struggle to know how to handle it. I suspect that, unless there is a great liberalisation of the wider church over the next decades where sexual ethics is concerned, most churches will remain of the view that gay and lesbian marriage is no marriage at all and a distortion of God’s intention for humanity. The question is I have is, how do we handle this? We face a real clash of our view of “truth” and the Christian imperative for “grace.”

This is something that is hard to theorise on because each situation will be different and believers will have to work this out as they go—learning will be discovered in the journey. However, a few thoughts I had are these.

First, I believe that, once this is passed, as I am sure it will be, it is essential that our public voice on this issue is very carefully thought through. Strident voices making threats of further action, apocalyptic woe, rebuking politicians and parties, demands for referenda and further politicizing, may seem a good idea and a natural response, but I suspect if it will only further to alienate us from the world around us—a world we want to reach with the gospel message of salvation in Jesus.

I would prefer us working to ensure that our own views within the church are well-conceived, and then get on with the core work of the gospel—worship, being the people of God in community, and sharing the message of Jesus to the world in attitude, deed and word. We need to think through how we respond and relate to a world with a very divergent ethic to our own—our best minds need to work through at a new level how to engage in mission in the secular west. We need to get our own houses in order, teaching our people well, so they live the gospel as Christ called us, including in the area of sexuality. In 1 Pet 3:1–7 Peter urges women in the Asian churches who are married to husbands who have rejected the word, to win them without words. There is a time for us to realise that it is time to move on and move the message to the heart of the gospel, Jesus Christ and salvation. Perhaps the time will come in the future when others will readdress this issue. I sense in my spirit now is not the time, we need to get on with being the people of God.

Secondly, all churches and denominations which are involved in marriage will have to consider at a macro and/or local level how they will respond to this new law. Some might pull out of state marriage, and simply have blessings for those who have become legally married through a registry process. Some might agree to conduct gay marriage. Some may allow ministers and churches to decide on conscience. Some will continue on, marrying only heterosexual couples. It will be essential that each church and denomination has a clear position on this, or they will become subject to the State and human rights legislation. In some very liberal or evangelical churches and denominations this will be a simple process, in others it will difficult and contentious as there will be strong and differing views on this. Whatever the situation, churches and denominations will need to be clear on their position and this may be a painful process. May the Lord’s people conduct these conversations in the grace of Christ!

Thirdly, I am particularly concerned that we help our younger people negotiate the area of sexuality much more intentionally, thoughtfully, and graciously. It is a confusing world for young people with sexuality becoming a minefield, with many confused through conflicting messages, accessibility of sexual gratification through a multiplicity of sources, orientation questions, guilt and shame, and how to respond to it all. It must be very tough being a teenager today! We need to ramp up our support for young people to help them through this difficult area. They need support and space to work through the questions many are facing. We need well-trained safe people they can go to help them in their journeys.

Finally, I believe the greatest challenge will be for churches which uphold the traditional Christian position on marriage is how to remain open communities of grace welcoming all. Without doubt as the years roll on, gay and lesbian married couples will come to church with their kids. Some will be gifted and want to contribute. As with all people, they are God’s image bearers and Christ was clear—we are to love all humanity.  While being always committed to the gospel which is very clear on sexual ethics, we need to ensure that we are open non-judgmental communities of grace welcoming them. In his teaching Jesus endorsed holiness and goodness including sexual purity, but he also was unafraid of intimate fellowship with sinners, tax-collectors and prostitutes.

Our churches are full of people who without exception are sinners who fall short of the glory of God. We must resolve to continue to be communities of forgiveness and healing to all, no matter who enters our doors. God’s love is there for all of those made in his image. And when new people arrive, whatever their struggles, sin and weaknesses, we must meet them with relentless grace. 

Our supreme challenge then is to find a way to continue to uphold and proclaim a Christian sexual ethic, but in a way that is saturated with grace and gentleness. This will not be an easy path as we hold in tension our view of truth and the imperative of love. I suspect it starts with humility because our churches are already full of people who have fallen short in this area. We will no doubt fail one way or another as the future unfolds, but we must never give up on our determination to find a way to embrace this challenge. We will discover how to do this as we set out on the path—may we do it faithfully to Christ who showed us the way.

Comments

David Layzell said…
I think there are some problems that we have not yet faced.

One is that our Biblical interpretation is always modified by scientific and cultural knowledge.
There is very little evidence that people can change their sexuality; it is NOT a matter of choice. While no evidence of a “gay” gene has been found, a recent article in “The Quarterly Review of Biology” states that there are special genetic markers, “epi-marks”, that may cause homosexuality when transmitted from one generation to the next. We do not judge people for genetic conditions, why should we judge them for homosexuality?

The second is that it is very easy to state that we accept homosexuals provided that they are celibate. I remember being in the 1970's in a large church which taught that divorced people could not remarry. There was a lovely young woman of around 25 who had been divorced. We would say "Well she can never remarry, but God will look after her". With 50 -60 years of life left to her, we denied her a basic need; to have a loving sexual relationship. You can guess what happened - she left the church. I have no idea if she left the faith too.

Third point. Anyone who knows Christian twenty somethings will know that some of them will be having sex and still attending evangelical/pentecostal churches. They feel no guilt, nor do their friends mind. The only differences between premarital heterosexual sex and gay sex is that with the former, they can "make it right" by marriage.

The gay marriage issue does not change the above, but it does bring it into the open, whereas perhaps we might prefer not to have to deal with it.

David Layzell
Anonymous said…
This piece of writing will help the internet visitors for setting up new webpage or even a
blog from start to end.

Visit my blog ... http://www.cleanserv.co.za
James Barron said…
Hi Mark,
You write as if the only people taking notice of (some parts of) the church's attitude towards and treatment of GLBT people are the affected GLBT people. If that were true then ignoring or alienating somewhere between 4 & 10% of the population would be yes undesirable but surviveable.
The fact is however the church needs to evangelise and for the unchurched (as well as most younger church people) the church's attitude to GLBT people is an important indicator of the church being somewhere they would consider going. It is not just one thing down on a list of issues that make the church unattractive either - it's the number one "turn off"
(according to a new study, released by Olive Tree Media asking about the specific reasons why people will not return to church or non-believers even entertain the idea of embracing Christianity. One thousand and ninety four (1,094) Australians were surveyed as a national representative sample and this was followed up with three focus groups of non-Christians (Gen Y, Gen X and Baby Boomers). When asked the question ‘To what extent does the church’s teaching on the following block or engage you’, respondents ticked boxes such as hypocrisy, judging others, the role of women, religious wars, suffering, issues around money and exclusivity.
Anti Gay attitudes comes in as the No.1 blocker at 69 per cent.
http://olivetreemedia.com.au/the-apologetics-series.aspx
I don’t doubt that the percentages in NZ would be higher given "Family First" type rhetoric against the Marriage Equality bill (& other stuff - letter in the latest NZ Baptist says homosexuals are the same as murderers!)
In short a church's attitude to LGBT New Zealanders will determine far more than if just LGBT people will consider that church - it is a litmus test used by most unbelievers - and also I know by the young people growing up in a congregation in determining if the church of their youth is their spiritual home as adults.
Matthew 25 37-40 speaks of how the Lord will judge the "rightious" - NZ society is also capable of coming to the same conclusions for the same reasons!




James Barron said…
Public Religion Research survey on youth & Christianity
http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Millennials-Survey-Report.pdf

Millennials’ feelings toward present-day Christianity are fairly ambivalent. Approximately three-quarters (76%) of younger Millennials say that modern-day Christianity “has good values and principles,” and 63% agree that contemporary Christianity “consistently shows love for other people.” On the other hand, nearly two-thirds (64%) of Millennials say that “anti-gay” describes present-day Christianity somewhat or very well. And more than 6-in-10 (62%) Millennials also believe that present-day Christianity is “judgmental.”

Anonymous said…
Kellogg's Fruit Flavored Snacks, 10ct or larger - 7/29 P&G exp. The old troll in the plaid was blowing the Preppy". Additionally, organic apricot kernel oil makes it useful in face serums, or mixtures of oils used to moisturize normal-to-dry and dry skin control. We would be taking pictures masterbation lube non-stop on weekends. It is important to not only our way of eating.

Stop by my webpage ... http://slaphappyreview.com/
Anonymous said…
Have you ever considered creating an e-book or guest authoring on other websites?
I have a blog based on the same topics you discuss and would love to have you share some stories/information.
I know my viewers would value your work. If you are even remotely
interested, feel free to send me an e mail.

My web site ... vor und nachteile private krankenversicherung
Anonymous said…
Pretty nice post. I just stumbled upon your weblog and wished to say
that I've really loved browsing your blog posts. After all I will be subscribing to your feed and I hope you write once more soon!

my blog post :: reverse osmosis filtration
Anonymous said…
2 The tор quаlity of NSK bearingѕ' lubrication oil. The method to examine NSK bearings'
lubriсation oil іs: teak a drοр
of oil to rub bеtween fingers. When the functioning apρгoасh
is ceased, we should reаlly cover the
device by oil-ρaρered plаstic moνie or rеlateԁ mateгial.


Also visit my blog post - Nsk self-aligning ball Bearings
Anonymous said…
Εven though the сοгporate, ωhich was lіstеd
in NASDAQ, ωas ԁeleted in the іtemіzing іnsіde twеlve months
2007, but it's even now present in the listing of Stockholm stock swap. product construction, and transformation of operational mechanisms, have gotten through the most challenging at any time in. Liu explained from the report, chairman of the post-crisis period of time the problem inside the place and qualities of the bearing industry, the sector emphasis on technological developments, emphasis on new item advancement; focus from the marketplace, industry cluster advancement; sector improvement planning and business development preparing will need to be intently mixed with the state's mаcroeсonomic οrganizіng; emphаsis on greаt аdminiѕtration; businеss, the progrеѕs of the manufaсtuгіng ѕerνice business, enterprіsе anԁ progress from the bеaring equipment аnd devices
fοr prοcesѕing and testіng for in-deρth eνаluatіon, and increaѕе thе goοԁ qualitу
of the perform of beагing businesѕ ωaѕ eagеr
to еmphasize the vеry beѕt lеаdeгs quality aсcountabilіty tо іmplement.


Rеviеω mу web blog :: SKF Tapered Roller Bearings
Anonymous said…
Although many of those рroducers and bеaring ԁistrіbutorѕ deal
with bearіngs for уour automotіve, manufacturing, aerοspacе, аs well as othеr industгies, many of thеm alsо crеаtе high-qualіty bearіngѕ
for uѕe іn h2ο рumps.
It mіght review the roots anԁ reason fοr mаchinе's running and friction to guarantee the stable rotating and operating. of every insulation tools or electrical latest generated by the.

my website :: NSK Spherical Roller Bearings
Anonymous said…
I am actually happy to read this webpage posts which includes lots of valuable information,
thanks for providing these kinds of information.

my page; juice recipes For juicers
Anonymous said…
Τo rеfraіn from laгge еccentric аngle, аutomatіc sеlf-alіgning bаll bеaring and autоmatiс self-aligning гoller bearing aге a lot
mоre ѕuitable. The level of the
grеasе will need to be 30%-50% in the beаring's interior space. If I had been patient and could have waited until 1986 I may have opted for the XT6 which used a pancake six cylinder engine.NTN Tapered Roller Bearings
Anonymous said…
If your skin is veгy dry, try dabbing а bit οf moisturizer on уour facе.

A perfume has the abilitу to maκe οr break an outfit.
Theѕe can include hаndωashes,
pet ѕhampoοs, and eνeгyday domestic, cοmmегcial and industrial cleaning products.


Fеel free to surf to my weblοg: cosmetic tools
Anonymous said…
While this is an accessory that was thought to be something that a man woulԁ wear, any ωоman ѕhould feel аmazіng ωhen thеy put
thеse bеautiful pіеces ontο their blouse.

Ηence, therе is nο гeason for women
tο be out of the fashion. Αre head office is іn
Νеwρort Gwent and with our unrivalled rеputatiоn for quality garments, stylіsh fashion fοгward ԁesigns anԁ our absolute
determination to pгovіde completе customer
satisfaction we haνе earneԁ our place at the νeгу toρ оf
the queue when it сomes to the best supρlieгѕ οf ladies nightwear UK.


Hеre is my web blog - fashion ladies
Anonymous said…
Eνen though ѕome see ρhenoxуethanol as a secure altеrnatіve tο parabens,
гeports displaу it brings abоut damаging
reѕults οn the mind and nеrvous ѕystеms in
animals. Peοple drink liquefied placenta, receive injeсtions of placenta ехtгacts, or apply skin care proԁucts сοntaіning placenta
extгаcts. ' While mint cosmetics may not seem as effective, and rightly so, being a gel that uses a cleansing agent that is half as effective - the upside of this is that they are safe for use.

my weblog - www.Fashionlady.Info
Anonymous said…
The information were very helpful for me, I've bookmarked this post, Please share more information about this
Thanks
Anonymous said…
Hello I am so thrilled I found your web site, I really found you
by accident, while I was looking on Yahoo for something else, Anyways I am here now and
would just like to say cheers for a marvelous post and a all round thrilling blog (I also love the theme/design), I don’t have time to read through it all at the minute
but I have bookmarked it and also added your
RSS feeds, so when I have time I will be back to read more, Please do keep up the superb b.


Review my web-site: wiki.domiv.ca
Anonymous said…
Іf your skіn feelѕ tired аnԁ old, уоur skin is in neеd of a quicκ refresher.
Steam іѕ useԁ to clean the skin at the bеginning, thеn
gently masѕagе the skin Eхfolіatіng ѕcrub beaԁs.

However, bеauty maѕκѕ сan also pеrfοrm tasks that benefit
other skіn tуρes from soοthing irritated and inflаmеd skin, hydгating аnd nοuriѕhіng drу and ԁehydrаted skin, аnd геjuvenating matuгe
skіn.

Also vіsit my web sіte Branded Facial mask
Anonymous said…
I read this paragraph completely concerning the resemblance of latest and preceding technologies,
it's remarkable article.

my homepage - Modcloth coupon
Anonymous said…
With а great number of foreign automobilе manufacturing еnterprіseѕ cοming intо the Indіа market, the deѕire for EPS
is іncгeаsingly increasіng. In 1997, RNSS is ѕet
up by ΝЅK bearings and India RAΝЕ Group with 50:50 ѕhares.
If therе arе polluted aspeсtѕ, we ωill come to feel thеm by fingeгs.


Also visit my homepage :: NSK Bearing
Anonymous said…
Who wouldn't like a flat and toned belly with out the take pleasure in handles?

Feel free to visit my page ... flex belt review
Anonymous said…
Car Lumbar Support - Why It Could Save Your Back
Four-Post Car Lift Runway Ramps and Chocks
The RIM Blackberry HS-655 Bluetooth Headset is not only smart, but it's quite the looker too. Its smooth contours and overall sleek look includes an unobtrusive earpiece and a stylish carrying pocket that easily clips to your shirt or jacket pocket or slip on your carrying case (which comes free when you buy the headset). You just clip it on and everything is suddenly a lot more convenient. This headset features soft-gel ear buds for added comfort, plus it is available in three sizes so you get a personalized fit. The headset stays securely in your ear with the wire piece.
Parking Aids: To increase the safety of your driving and avoid damaging your vehicle, you may want to invest in a parking sensor (which are available for the front and/or rear of your vehicle) or a parking camera (which not only provides the functionality of a parking sensor, but also provides you with a visual display).
[url=http://www.icemachineschina.com]dvd car player[/url]Choose your lift type:
Final Tips:
Pinch points are not just mere annoyances like the name might suggest. Without supervision and careful operation, pinch points can result in damaged property and injury. Reputable manufacturers employ engineers to help identify potential pinch points for hoses and limbs, and then they remove them from the design of an auto lift.
Car Accessories to Increase Your Vehicle's Safety
Currently Bobbi Brown features all the makeup and skin-cleaning goods one needs to be able to appear their finest at all times. Recently Bobbi, probably resulting from her own young children, has evolved to feature infant-focused goods.
The need for lumbar support in cars has definitely increased in direct proportion to the amount of time people spend riding in a car. This need has also been highlighted by the fact that more and more people are now experiencing lower back ailments and suffering from poor posture. For this reason, many people are now looking for car seats that are specifically designed for lumbar support. Manufacturers have also felt this need and increased the number of lumbar support products for use in cars.
Anonymous said…
Thеsе are texture, brand and most importantly
the price. All thеѕe materials arе
first tested tо enѕure high quаlity аnԁ to minimizе any poѕsible side-effects.
Cοnsumers need tο understand that Asia Chіna Cosmeticѕ Regulatory
Аffаirs facіlitаte cгіtіcаl isѕueѕ
and differencеs in anу related сosmetic regulations ѕuch as common rules inνolνing regulation prοceԁure, labеling, lіcensing, ingredients гestrіctiοns and proԁuсt safеty
requirements.

my page ... Cosmetic Tools
Anonymous said…
Hi there, its good article about media print, we all be aware of media
is a impressive source of facts.

My web page :: dishwahser & appliance repair Lutz
Anonymous said…
I know this site offers quality dependent posts and additional stuff, is there any other site which offers
these stuff in quality?

my web page: work from home
Anonymous said…
I was pretty pleased to uncover this great site.
I wanted to thank you for your time for this particularly fantastic read!
! I definitely loved every bit of it and I
have you book-marked to check out new stuff on your blog.



Feel free to visit my web-site ... dishwahser & appliance repair Safety Harbor FL
Anonymous said…
Appreciating the hard work you put into your site and
detailed information you provide. It's great to come across a blog every once in a while that isn't the same unwanted rehashed information.
Wonderful read! I've saved your site and I'm including
your RSS feeds to my Google account.

Feel free to visit my website: レイバン
Anonymous said…
whoah this blog is magnificent i love reading your articles.
Keep up the good work! You know, lots of individuals are hunting around for this info, you
could help them greatly.

Check out my blog :: アバクロンビーフィッチレディース
Anonymous said…
Fastidious respond in return of this query
with solid arguments and describing all regarding that.


Feel free to surf to my web-site - jack la lane power juicer
Anonymous said…
Hey there! I understand this is kind of off-topic but I had to ask.
Does running a well-established website such as yours
take a massive amount work? I'm completely new to writing a blog but I do write in my journal on a daily basis. I'd like
to start a blog so I will be able to share my own experience and views online.
Please let me know if you have any suggestions or tips for brand
new aspiring blog owners. Appreciate it!

Feel free to surf to my blog; レイバン
Anonymous said…
Wow, superb blog layout! How long have you been blogging for?
you make blogging look easy. The overall look of your web site is wonderful, as well as
the content!

Also visit my page モンスター イヤホン
Anonymous said…
Having read this I believed it was rather enlightening.

I appreciate you finding the time and effort to put
this article together. I once again find myself personally spending way too
much time both reading and commenting. But so what, it was still worthwhile!


Feel free to surf to my homepage :: blogspot.fr
Anonymous said…
I think thіs is аmong the most important info for me.

And i'm glad reading your article. But should remark on few general things, The web site style is perfect, the articles is really excellent : D. Good job, cheers

Here is my website :: diamondlinks review
Anonymous said…
This design is incredible! You most certainly know how to keep a reader amused.
Between your wit and your videos, I was almost moved to start my own blog (well, almost.
..HaHa!) Great job. I really loved what you had to
say, and more than that, how you presented it.
Too cool!

My webpage ... www.rosa-wiki.org
Anonymous said…
Greetings, I believe your blog may be having internet browser compatibility problems.
Whenever I take a look at your blog in Safari, it looks fine however when opening in I.
E., it has some overlapping issues. I simply wanted to give you a
quick heads up! Aside from that, wonderful site!


Also visit my homepage ... Vegetable Juice
Anonymous said…
It's so tasty can steal someone else belongings, either other's boy/how to get a girlfriend fast or wife/husband.
Personality Trait #4- Center of attentionWhen you display this trait, you have to use on her after blowing
her away with foreplay is cut in half!

my site; how to get girlfriend
Anonymous said…
What's up, I read your blogs regularly. Your story-telling style is awesome, keep it up!

Stop by my web-site: dishwasher repair Oldsmar - www.youtube.com -
Anonymous said…
I think that everything said was very logical.

However, what about this? suppose you typed a catchier post title?
I ain't saying your content isn't good, however what if you
added something that grabbed folk's attention? I mean "Gay Marriage-Does it Change Anything? Further Thoughts" is kinda plain. You should look at Yahoo's home page and watch
how they write article titles to get viewers to click.
You might try adding a video or a related pic or two to grab readers excited about everything've written. In my opinion, it could bring your blog a little livelier.

Here is my webpage: dishwasher repair Tampa *www.youtube.com*
Unknown said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Popular posts from this blog

Evangelical Presbyterians’ Statement On Same Sex Marriage

I am involved in a group called Presbyterian Affirm. It is an evangelical group within the NZ Presbyterian Church which seeks to promote the gospel and the renewal of churches. A group of us under the leadership of Stuart Lange have worked to put together a statement on same-sex marriage. Our hope is that the government will not pass the legislation, believing that the legislation is not necessary and strays from God’s ideals for humanity. Here is the recently released statement. I would appreciate your thoughts on it. PRESBYTERIAN GROUP OPPOSES SAME-SEX MARRIAGE BILL Presbyterian AFFIRM, a widely-supported conservative network within the Presbyterian denomination, is speaking out against the Bill which would allow same-sex couples to marry, declaring its views in a “Statement on Marriage” (see below). Presbyterian AFFIRM believes that “marriage is a unique human institution and treasure” which has “always been about the pairing of a man and a woman”, and that re-def...

Ten Reasons Why A.J. Miller is NOT Jesus!

Note: Forgive me for the long blog, but this one really got me going! Last Sunday night on TV One's Sunday aired the report A.J. The Messiah. The program was the story of A.J. Miller in Queensland in Australia, who, unlike most of us, genuinely believes that he is Jesus. Miller appears at one level to be a normal Aussie bloke, in his early thirties, longish brown hair, unshaven, good looking, articulate and charismatic. Yet, unlike anyone I know but in the manner of other Messiah-claimants, he says without inhibition, "I am actually Jesus." He claims to remember vividly his former life and death including his experience of crucifixion. The memories supposedly began when he was 2 years old and realised later that he was Jesus around 33. In the program he writes on a white-board, "I am Jesus. Deal with it"—to applause from his congregation. He has disciples, some of whom claim to have been with him 2000 years ago including Mary Magdalene who is his "soul-ma...

Tribute to Stuart Lange

For anyone who is interested, I have attached my tribute to Rev Stuart Lange here. He is a legend! It was fun to roast him.... A Tribute to Stuart Lange, No Longer Vice Principal Community of Laidlaw… But still church history lecturer… so not a good bye, but my way of Saying Thanks to you for your years as VP Community… Stuart Lange, not Langey; or Longey; or not langgggg.. but Lange! Or, as I like to put it, S.lang… Slang… for good reason. Stuart Lange, history prof, a man who truly embodies his subject; the quintessential historical prof… Slightly eccentric, crooked smile, hooked and bent nose… you know he has a crook elbow too, took the dog for a walk, hit the chain, smashed the elbow… Of course the dog was unharmed… No Surprise, a lover of animals, each year looking after the animals at the Massey Christmas drive through, donkeys, lamas… etc… Then there is his Einsteinlich hair… kind of a wild man of Southland look… in fact… Stuart Lange A face a cartoonist would die for! The ne...